Curse

strcpy · May 23, 2008, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Speaking of PvE skills, I have a serious question. Assuming it didnt affect AI enemies (ie: they didn't have the same skills), would anybody mind if orison of healing healed for 3000 and splinter weapon hit for 10 million? That way some players could destroy the game if they wanted, and those who wanted a challenge wouldn't have to use them? That is literally the impression I am getting around here.

Since we know that eating only 500 calories per day will kill you, eating 1000 a day will tend to cause developmental problems, 1500 calories per day will be OK, and 2000 per day is even better (for the normal male) it goes to follow that eating 100,000 calories per day *must* be good for you too!

Reality is line of logic fails there just as much as it does on yours. It is is silly (I'll be polite here) to think that because people would rather have the old Splinter Weapon back that they want a ten million damage skill.

There is too little power and there is too much power. Some will draw the lines in different places, however because someone else draws that line elsewhere doesn't mean you should loose all your ability to think. In fact, for anyone that is intelligent enough to run a game that is still popular three years later (read - Anet) you are mostly having them completely dismiss you as a hack with a complete inability to think things through. Hyperbole (especially when presented as your real argument) never helps you - at the least I *hope* it was only hyperbole and you realize that what you are saying isn't that bright.

MisterB · May 23, 2008, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

Reality is line of logic fails there just as much as it does on yours. It is is silly (I'll be polite here) to think that because people would rather have the old Splinter Weapon back that they want a ten million damage skill.

Let's have some fun here. Put 34 enemies in one spot, and then [[Splinter [email protected]] + [[Barrage] = 9,010 damage from Splinter Weapon alone. Isn't doing over 9,000 damage in one attack a level of power that is clearly broken? Pun intended.

But doing over 9,000 damage in one shot is exactly what some players want. They want their old power level back. OK, I'll stop now.

wu is me · May 23, 2008, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by SerenitySilverstar

So were they handouts back in the good old days, when the nostalgically remembered Guilds Wars hadn't been balanced?

What the lord giveth, the lord also can taketh :P, but he really shouldn't try to do both at the same time, cos although he is lord, he only made humans with so much capacity to comprehend one skill set adequately, and if he tried he would piss em off

on a less cryptic note, its all a matter of perception, and so long as they divorce PvE from whats considered widely to be "Balanced" PvP, I'm always gonna perceive whatever build that eventuates from PvE as a handout.

Improvavel · May 23, 2008, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Well this made Anet rise a few points in my consideration.

They just dont need to screw it. The game still has to be challenging and diverse for PvE.

Also people need to understand that PvP and PvE are different. Sure PvP requires alot more skill, but monsters in PvE hit for alot more than human players do in PvP. It was funny when you saw the likes of [Vengeful Was Khanhei] and people suggesting [dolyak signet] in GvG cause the rangers npcs had 100+ damage power shots. Monsters in PvE deal alot more.

So Ursan still is to powerful for PvE. Nerf it a bit. Then use it as a meter stick for what is acceptable.

Kaida the Heartless · May 23, 2008, 06:24 AM // 06:24

It's not like PvE matters anyways. If you can't beat a static opponent, that's your lack of intelligence. Give 'em their 9k Splinter. People who want it will use it. There's already an end all (See: Ursan), so may as well break all the other PvE skills while were at it.

Wtb: Uncapped Minions in PvE. At least this way I can sit my ass away from the pvp bullshit that is Sway right now, ya'know, until someone at anet decides to get off thier ass and actually nerf something detrimental within a week or two of it wrecking everything. Weren't these skill changes already decided on a month ago? Where the hell is the balance for what is currently running amok?

Also, who cares if people who post on forums arn't the majority, they are the dedicated. The rest will find another game in 2 months and completely forget about guildwars. Way to cater to the stupid, temporary masses. It's thier fault they are choosing to remain uneducated about their games. If you can't get motivated enough to gain knowledge for a game, I'd hate to see your IQ readout for the more complex things in life.

Abedeus · May 23, 2008, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Quote:

Nerf it a bit. Then use it as a meter stick for what is acceptable.

Too bad I'm an idiot and I still hope that A.Net will nerf it equally to the time it took to nerf it. Like with Spirit Bond - it was in use some time, then they WTFPWND it till people started using SoA with it (which was nerfed, too), then it was fixed a bit few days ago.

Oh well, guess I'm off to perma shadow with my Mesmer.

Turbobusa · May 23, 2008, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

Discord: (5 energy, 1 cast, 2 recharge) (Elite)
If target foe is suffering from a condition and under the effect of a hex or an enchantment, that foe suffers 30...94 damage.

Necrosis: (5 energy, 1 cast, 2 recharge) (PvE-only)
If target foe is suffering from a condition or hex, that foe suffers 40...90 damage.

Ooooooh! Choices!

I'll help you.

starts with "Her", finishes with "oes"
Repeat after me, "No PvE skill on Heroes"

ManMadeGod · May 23, 2008, 07:13 AM // 07:13

Generally speaking,
I just feel it became worse.
Disappointed.

ManMadeGod · May 23, 2008, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

Discord: (5 energy, 1 cast, 2 recharge) (Elite)
If target foe is suffering from a condition and under the effect of a hex or an enchantment, that foe suffers 30...94 damage.

Necrosis: (5 energy, 1 cast, 2 recharge) (PvE-only)
If target foe is suffering from a condition or hex, that foe suffers 40...90 damage.

Ooooooh! Choices!

Discord deals 30...94...115 damage actually.
Good for hero MM in PvE.

strcpy · May 23, 2008, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

Let's have some fun here. Put 34 enemies in one spot, and then [[Splinter [email protected]] + [[Barrage] = 9,010 damage from Splinter Weapon alone. Isn't doing over 9,000 damage in one attack a level of power that is clearly broken? Pun intended.

But doing over 9,000 damage in one shot is exactly what some players want. They want their old power level back. OK, I'll stop now.

Best you do - I asked if one wants to just be exaggerating for the sake of argument or if they want to be stupid. If you want to be stupid then have at it - I can happily put you in that category and ignore anything you say (along with Anet most likely doing that). You know that you are being that way, you also know how you perceive other people who do that. Do you *really* want to be seen that way?

How about you argue something reasonable? It would help the conversation end up someplace useful instead of each side squaring off and going into areas that are totally unrealistic.

However, since I tend towards the side against your feel free to be stupid all you want - there is nothing that I can do that supports my arguments as strong as the other side being nearly 100% that way. Were I to be fully focused on winning I would like it, however I'm more interested in an involved and thriving community but I realize that isn't very likely - too many like being stupid when given the choice and will continue on and on.

Turbobusa · May 23, 2008, 07:55 AM // 07:55

^people cried when splinter got nerfed because they couldn't farm margonites and do 3000damage per shot, I think that says long enough

tmakinen · May 23, 2008, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

Let's have some fun here. Put 34 enemies in one spot, and then [[Splinter [email protected]] + [[Barrage] = 9,010 damage from Splinter Weapon alone. Isn't doing over 9,000 damage in one attack a level of power that is clearly broken?

Hitting a huge mob with any AoE is a guaranteed way to get some crazy numbers. It doesn't - by itself - mean that the skill is broken.

Lagg · May 23, 2008, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Come on, what a cop out...

What's stopping them from splitting ALL skills?

Maybe it's time they got some fresh blood for balancing their skills.

Heck, if there's no time, then at least let PvE skill balancing become a democratic issue, where players can vote how they'd like to see a skill changed.

Snow Bunny · May 23, 2008, 08:03 AM // 08:03

Past the rather revert-lite nature of this update, I'm overwhelmingly dissapointed with the Guru community's response. For almost a year now, I've read the weekly grief issued forth from hundreds of players dissatisfied with PvP nerfs affecting their gameplay, saying it made the game more difficult, farming less lucratice, et cetera et cetera.

Now ANet actually caters to this, and these hundreds of players are nowhere to be seen. Where, after dozens (including myself) started flame wars over PvP/PvE debates, are these players who so ardently cried for this separation.

I'm sure the average player loves this update. I hate it personally - but then again, I always believed that PvP should come before PvE. The level of hypocrisy in this thread is astounding from certain players. Posters like Zinger and Arkantos do not surprise me; I expected their respective reactions as such and respect that.

But many of you have reneged on your earlier views and are following a crowd.

Arcanis the Omnipotent · May 23, 2008, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Lets put 34 enemies in one spot and use E. Surge. Oh look at that, over 3,000 damage with one hit. Wow, but oh darn, it was only once to all 34.

What a silly argument.

While I'm on the subject, how about giving PVE people the choice between using the PVE or PVP version of the skill. That way people who dont want to use the buffed versions dont have to.

ProgTes · May 23, 2008, 08:11 AM // 08:11

I love this.

manitoba1073 · May 23, 2008, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Past the rather revert-lite nature of this update, I'm overwhelmingly dissapointed with the Guru community's response. For almost a year now, I've read the weekly grief issued forth from hundreds of players dissatisfied with PvP nerfs affecting their gameplay, saying it made the game more difficult, farming less lucratice, et cetera et cetera.

Now ANet actually caters to this, and these hundreds of players are nowhere to be seen. Where, after dozens (including myself) started flame wars over PvP/PvE debates, are these players who so ardently cried for this separation.

I'm sure the average player loves this update. I hate it personally - but then again, I always believed that PvP should come before PvE. The level of hypocrisy in this thread is astounding from certain players. Posters like Zinger and Arkantos do not surprise me; I expected their respective reactions as such and respect that.

But many of you have reneged on your earlier views and are following a crowd.

Its GURU what do you really expect. However this update is something that either should have happened when Anet made the ability to make PvP only chars or they should have never allowed PvP char only to be done in the first place. Regardless if some think it was and still is a good idea.

Now on the balancing of skills strictly due to PvP consideration only was stupid idea to begin with. Since that was your primary way of playing ofcourse you were happy, but I hate to break the news to you SB, but guess where there majority of money was coming from. Making it a bad business decision to do so.

I see this update as sort of an appesement really myself and a way of hiding past bad decisions made by Anet in the hopes of establishing a carry over population for GW2. Instead of actually correcting the mistakes made they are covering them up with the reverting of some skills.

But after all SB you should be really happy now. Anet really now no longer even have to have a slight glance towards PvE to balance for PvP and they can go a wildly stupid as they want with there skills in PvP.

Im still waiting to see the rest that is yet to come before any other judgements.

Stormlord Alex · May 23, 2008, 09:04 AM // 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Players like this are part of the problem. Escape is several orders of magnitude better than it was at a 30 second recharge, as are the tactics stances, yet people complain anyway. It has absolutely nothing to do with skill balanced, players like the one quoted will complain when anything changes ingame, for good or bad.

People are stupid.
Big numbers = better skill M I RITE?

Quote:

Personally, I'm outright confused at the people who want a completely static game that never receives updates, but I'm beginning to see that I"m in the minority. This depresses me.

I'm feeling the same... As a primarily PvE player, I actually liked skill balances - they shook up an otherwise static game, gave me freedom to explore and create new builds. I can hope that they'll continue to nerf skills (and buff skills in interesting ways... foul feast anyone?) in PvE in spite of the split, but ANet is seeming to want to cater to the idiot majority of PvEers who want to blow shit up with 1000 damage spells to get ph4t lewts with no effort.

No fun buffs, no earth-shaking nerfs, just big numbers in a static environment.
Because the old escape was better

because big numbers r gud
meh

arcanemacabre · May 23, 2008, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

I'm feeling the same... As a primarily PvE player, I actually liked skill balances - they shook up an otherwise static game, gave me freedom to explore and create new builds. I can hope that they'll continue to nerf skills (and buff skills in interesting ways... foul feast anyone?) in PvE in spite of the split, but ANet is seeming to want to cater to the idiot majority of PvEers who want to blow shit up with 1000 damage spells to get ph4t lewts with no effort.

Exactly how I feel about the whole thing. Thank you for putting it so perfectly, Alex.

I always liked the idea of a split, but only because PvP and PvE work so differently on many levels; not because I hated nerfs/changes. Same reason I was initially enjoying the idea of PvE-only skills, only to find out they were just going to be super-powered, dumbed-down, and totally uncreative skills. Now we're going to be left with more skills like that, and what's worse, these skills will likely never change because "PvEers hate change! Waaaah!"

At least give us an option to play PvE with either PvE or PvP descriptions. Not that it matters much...

Esan · May 23, 2008, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Where, after dozens (including myself) started flame wars over PvP/PvE debates, are these players who so ardently cried for this separation[?]

They are in-game, having a great time.

Like any heterogeneous community, Guru does not speak with one voice. For any proposition A, it is perfectly consistent for both A and ~A to encounter opposition on this site, if the opposition comes from disjoint subsets of posters.